Thursday, March 5th 2009
I am not a chauvinist. I feel it is necessary to issue a pre-emptive self-defence despite its invariable impotence given the next sentence. I do not feel that McMaster needs a Women’s Centre.
Ignoring the fact that the question has not been settled on, the services provided have not been agreed upon, and the physical location on campus has not been decided, The proposed Women’s Centre would be off limits to straight men, and I cannot support any measure that seeks to divide students as a cure for existing divisions.
Yes, I am looking at this from a straight man’s perspective, but it’s the only one I’ve got, so even if it’s inadmissible to some, it works for me. I don’t see this as an issue of feminism or hegemony, nor will I employ the tired “What about a Man’s Centre?” defence. I simply see this as an issue related to my perspective of what a student union is: a union of students.
The McMaster Students’ Union, in my mind, exists to tackle the issues that affect us all in kind. To use our money in funding a space that only a few of us will be allowed to use is a betrayal of the word ‘union.’
We are one group, and to cut us up, even along the perforated edges of years of injustice, makes us all smaller and weaker. In a way, allowing (encouraging, even) students to surround themselves with those who are like them feeds a banality that hurts us even more than the hegemony-mandated segregation of years past. Then, there was a clear victim and a clear oppressor. Now, there would be nothing more than a blank, gray abyss, devoid of discourse.
As easy as it is for me to say, I feel that the issues at hand (extreme examples such as rape or abortion come to mind) would be better served discussed in the public sphere.
So you feel uncomfortable discussing having had an abortion to the point where you feel only safe discussing it with an isolated group. Are you not then, betraying every girl who will follow the same path, and will now feel only comfortable talking to the same shadows? Again, I realize this is easy for me to say, but I still want to know. How many rapes go unreported every year? I don’t know. I want to know, but the only way I ever will know is, unironically, if those rapes get reported, not in the isolation of a Women’s Centre, but in the public square.
I understand that it is hard, and also, that I have no ability to understand how hard it would be. I, however, feel that promoting isolation in the name of safety is an affront to the principles of the university itself.
We come together from many cities, from many ideologies, and from many tiers of power, not to retreat back to comfortable surroundings and shy away from the realities that cause us harm, but to attack them head on in an attempt at making the world a better place for those who will one day follow.
I feel that a Women’s Centre on campus would accomplish the exact opposite of what we need to be doing, which is providing grounds for discourse.
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Hate to break it to you, Adam Owen, but just because you don’t identify as a chauvanist, doesn’t mean you aren’t one.
This is a women’s issue, and no, not in the sense of being exclusionary to men and the greater community, because obviously their support is needed.
But it is a women’s issue in the sense that this is a WOMEN’S CENTRE, and the straight white male perspective is almost entirely irrelevant to whether its going to “divide the community.” Look, if you want a club, you can walk out on the street and there’s your club, the “straight white middle-class male club,” BAM, you’re in. So, for a girl who’s been raped, totally shamed, violated, physically hurt and emotionally demolished, where’s her club? I’m pretty sure she doesnt want to go shouting it from the rooftops… “So you feel uncomfortable discussing having had an abortion to the point where you feel only safe discussing it with an isolated group.” Where the HELL else would anyone feel COMFORTABLE describing their rape? No one is comfortable with rape. Having a FEMINIST women’s centre would allow sexual assault victims to support each other, and if that’s an isolated group, so be it. There are other ways to communicate the greater message to the community about the injustice and disgustingness of sexual assault. Some topics just aren’t ever going to be open for community/public discussion.
Overall, this article reeks of neo-liberal misogyny, and you could have done your research on ANY element of women’s issues or feminist standpoints to know that this is complete blasphemy.
And Im sure all of that was, “easy for you to say.” At least you acknowledged that. But talking about rape or abortion, not so easy for someone to say. Your privilege continues to stifle those without that power. Try giving them a voice instead of turning up the volume on your own. We’ve heard it before.
While it can be argued that issues like abortion are ‘women’s issues’ (despite the fact that roughly one half of aborted fetuses in the western world are male) this is not what we are discussing. We are talking about a student issue, as this centre seeks to be funded through a levy on all students, male, female or trans.
Your personal worldview notwithstanding, the MSU has services and clubs. Services are apolitical, while clubs can be as political or not as they wish. The damage of allowing a service such as the proposed women’s centre to openly declare a feminist paradigm in its governing ideology would be comparable to the Silhouette approaching every issue on campus from a basis in black liberation theology. Sure, it would give some maligned people on campus a greater voice, but it would decrease the quality of the publication and the service rendered. I am saying this from a bureaucratic perspective, not a political one. I have nothing against feminism or any other political theory. The matter we are debating, however, is whether an individual political ideology is allowable in the governance of a civil service. I say no. You, apparently say yes.
I am, in any case, confused at being called neo-liberal. Could you explain this? If anything, my call for an equitable use of Union funds across the board puts me at odds with a political system that has led to a concentration of wealth in one particular social group. I can’t really see where I promoted free trade of open borders, but if you’d like to show me where I did, then please do. Otherwise, leave the 2nd year buzzwords in your response papers and out of reasonable debate.
While it’s great that you acknowledge the perspective from which you come from, a straight male, you still decided to include opinion on how issues, such as rape and abortion, would be better handled within your idealized view of a student union. As a women’s studies student, I can appreciate the idea that difference and not being able to theorize one another because of divergent positionalities can hinder dialogue and positive change. However, you theorize a bit too much on how you would like serious issues such as rape and/or abortion to be better handled. I don’t believe you fully grasp the perspective of a rape victim who (borrowed from Morgan’s well articulated description)is totally shamed, violated, physically hurt and emotionally demolished. If you acknowleded this perspecive, then you would recognize how terrifying it would be to come forward.
Because making a rape public does not open her up to public scrutiny at all? Because the entire process of reporting a rape does not include reliving it through testimony and defending oneself against a system that requires the victim to convince everyone else that she was in fact violated.
And if she chooses to not report it, they ask, “Would you feel responsible if it happened to another woman?” It will happen to someone else at the fault of the victim and NOT at the rapist himself. It just works that way, right?
You glorify the public sphere as a groundbreaking forum from which women can seek support and inspire others. Need I remind you of the embarassing Plumbline controversy. Because McMaster’s public forum isn’t intimidating or judmental at all!
I’m sure a female student facing the issue of abortion is comfortable publically speaking about her own struggles when she recalls the blatant pro-life demonstrations put out in front of the BSB courtyard.
The argument mentioned in the editorial where speaking about issues, such as abortion, in a isolated forum is a form of betrayal, infuriates me. Why is it when something of such a personal nature happens to a woman, she is OBLIGATED to make it public in order to “help” others. No. The obligation she should have is to make sure her choice in handling the situation is personal and of most benefit to herself, FIRST. A women’s centre would seek to provide support AND the means to report crimes such as rape, if the victim so chooses. No one ever claimed the women’s centre would promote silence among victims.
To quote you: “I understand that it is hard, and also, that I have no ability to understand how hard it would be. I, however, feel that promoting isolation in the name of safety is an affront to the principles of the university itself.”
That’s right. You failed to understand the difficultly a rape victim must face. You should have moved on from that point, yet you added a disconnected, outsider perspective. I don’t understand your contradiction. And as far as safety taking a backseat to the principles of the University, I would like to think that the principles of the University (both mine and yours) would put the safety of its students at the forefront.
Overall, you made your point in deciphering between what you believe belongs within a student union and what belongs within clubs. That is a student issue, an issue that is both mine, yours and everyone elses’ who pays McMaster at the beginning of the school year. However, I take issue (and great offense) to your presumptions on issues you will never fully experience.
Oops, neoliberal = liberal (neoliberal just sounds so nice sometimes. I’ll have to turn off my second year buzzword light for when I start my MASTERS next year). And by liberal, very simply, I mean a blind equality, which is what a public-forum style handling of women’s issues entails.
An apolitical MSU women’s organization would be inappropriate and banal!
Vote NO for MSU women’s centre referendum! See we can agree on something, right?
Actually, yes. I do agree with that.
Public resources should not be spent on any one individual ideology. Should the university grant the space on campus for an independently (or municipally, should the centre become apolitical) funded, autonomous women’s centre, there would be no problem.
An apolitical MSU run women’s centre would indeed be inappropriate, as the MSU already provides many of the basic services in as apolitical a way as they can.
We can debate whether or not there is a need for it to be political or not, but in any case, the money for this centre should not come through the MSU.
If it is apolitical, it would be redundant, and if it is political, it would go against a universal nature of services.
In response to Tina, I do admit to approaching this issue from an idealistic perspective. It was, perhaps, unfair, for me to suggest that someone suffering any sort of misfortune is personally betraying their successors if they don’t speak up, given the myriad of issues and social externalizes involved. To clarify, or at least adapt my point, I feel that it is an act of betrayal that we all take part in when we allow a situation to permeate that makes people uncomfortable or ashamed of themselves.
While you’re right that victims should not be obligated to do anything, we all should be obligated to fashion a society that one day allows us to speak about these things openly. I know we are not in that world yet, but what can we do to get there? I still feel that, while addressing the needs of individuals, the social good is hampered somewhat as I don’t see it getting us to that ideal any faster. I’m usually wrong though…
Is it chauvinist to want openness? Yes.
This week McMaster is contemplating the establishment of a Women’s Centre on campus. The other day, as I was going through this weeks’ Sil, I was greatly disturbed by an article entitled, “Is it chauvinist to want openness?” It was not the title that perturbed me, rather the article in its entirety, its poor reasoning and faulty logic. Executive editor of the Silhouette Adam Owen came to a single conclusion. “I feel that a Women’s Centre on campus would accomplish the exact opposite of what we need to be doing, which is providing grounds for discourse.” In other words, Adam believes that a Women’s Centre would only work to isolate women from men. Let me begin my rebuttal with this: When someone prefaces their opinion with the proverbial, “I’m not a racist but….” Or “I’m not homophobic but…” you can be pretty damn confident that what will follow will be a racist or homophobic speech attempting to cloak itself through pseudo-acknowledgment. So the opening “I am not a chauvinist” is not very convincing.
First it is important to say that the current attempt to establish a Women’s Center on campus was not done with the consultation of a group of women and men who have been working for a couple of years to establish a centre on campus. This new conception of the women centre excludes Trans people and many other specific issues pertinent to “women’s issues”. The lack of direction is not due an uncommitted understanding of what a women’s centre would do, rather the attempt to bypass The Founding Committee for the McMaster Centre for Women and Trans People. That being said, there are good fundamentals that a Women’s Centre would bring to the McMaster campus.
The Centre would be a space that is non-threatening and safe, for women to drop in for crisis support or counseling. As well as offering workshops and information sessions related to women and Trans people, advocacy work and community outreach, pertaining to the local McMaster/Hamilton community.
Now according to Owen, this space would only serve to isolate women from men. “So you feel uncomfortable discussing having had an abortion to the point where you only feel safe discussing it with an isolated group. Are you not then betraying every girl who will follow the same path…?” I think this is an important issue to address. First of all, when dealing with reproductive rights, and sexual violence, women have not had the comfort of dealing with a society, that is first interested in disusing these issues in a non-paternalistic manner and second and more importantly, have not lent the supportive hand that Adam suggest would be there if women were forced to talk about their rapes publicly. Where is this open and supportive public forum that Adam says will be there for women here at McMaster? And which women would like to be the guinea pigs for this experiment? Have you been violated? Need someone to talk to? Bring it to the MSU, they need to learn about stuff, so your experience can be the gateway to their knowledge! Spare me. Adam, if you do not know how many rapes go unreported each year, look it up. Or better yet take a Women’s Studies course. We would love to have you.
A women’s centre would not isolate women from men, it would allow women to feel safe and supported. From the Women and Trans Centre founding committee, “we envision a Women and Trans Centre that helps to better the McMaster Community by ensuring that women and trans people feel supported as equal, safe, and valued members of the community. The Centre would provide a safe drop in space for women, and free support, referrals and resources. It would be open to all members of the McMaster community; this means undergrad students, graduate students, faculty members and staff members.”
I think the most important question that we must consider is, Where would women and trans people feel safe talking about issues that affect them on a daily basis? That is the simple question that Adam did not consider.
So as we contemplate the possibility of a Women’s Centre, remind yourselves, that the best way to find out what a Women’s Centre would do, how it would operate etc, would be to ask the group who have been, for the lack of a better cliché, busting their ass.
This argument is not very good at all. In fact it makes no sense.
This argument to not have a women’s center is not very good at all. In fact it makes no sense.
“As easy as it is for me to say, I feel that the issues at hand (extreme examples such as rape or abortion come to mind) would be better served discussed in the public sphere. ”
You mean along side the McMaster Lifeline? Ladies, if you want to talk about your abortion, do it with people who will call you a murderer!!
We need a safe space.
I’m really not clear on the annual rape statistics, but the scope of this endeavor seems excessive, at best, even if it was available to all students instead of segregated by gender. If we’re worried about rape victims, then why not have services dedicated to rape victims? If it’s discrimination, then an anti-discrimination center. I presume that fewer men are raped than women, but it’s still not exclusive. Basically, I think I see the point that Adam was trying to make. Why mandate this Center for only a portion of the student body? Why is it necessary to exclude men from accessing these doubtless worthy services?
Hi Justin and Adam,
you seem to be segregated from reality by a fence I will probably be unable to climb. however, the fact that you are arguing about whether a women’s centre is appropriate at all, seems to be a problem. What is so threatening about a place for women given the historic misogyny Canada has exhibited?
This is taken from statistics Canada (Note that they are government funded, so they tend to under emphasize prejudice that might make Canada look bad):
“A relatively large proportion of employed women work part-time. In 2006, more than 2 million employed women, 26% of all women in the paid workforce, worked less than 30 hours per week at their main job, compared with just 11% of employed men. In fact, women have accounted for about seven in 10 of all part-time employees since the late 1970s.”
furthermore:
” in recent years, the proportion of employed lone mothers has increased substantially, jumping 20 percentage points between 1995 and 2006.
” The presence of young children also has a greater impact on the employment of lone mothers than it does their counterparts with partners. In 2006, just 46% of lone mothers with children under age 3 were employed, compared with 66% of mothers in two-parent families. At the same time, among those whose youngest child was aged 3 to 5, 66% of female lone parents, compared with 70% of mothers in two-parent families, were part of the paid workforce.”
These statistics are available at http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/89f0133x/89f0133×2006000-eng.htm
The following paragraph is from the Elizabeth Fry society of peterborough’s website (available at http://www.cefso.ca/facts&figures.html). Elizabeth Fry primarily deals with advocacy for women in the federal prison system.
“Many of the difficulties experienced by women in conflict with the law are concomitant. Women with substance abuse problems often have histories of physical and sexual abuse in childhood and, as adults, are also likely to have physical health problems and to have developed a variety of emotional and psychiatric conditions. Coupled with a lack of financial or employment resources and single parenthood, these problems create a web from which it would be difficulty to expect anyone to extricate herself without considerable support and assistance. The implications of high levels of abuse among offender populations and their links with other problems such as substance abuse, ill-heath, and low socio-economic status all point to the need for specific programming for women. (Shaw & Hargreaves, 1994: 17)”
Whether we would like to argue that boys are raped, which they are but in fewer numbers than girls ( 9 to 17 year olds girls have the highest rate of sexual assault and physical assaults by friends or acquaintances. 9 Girls under the age of 18 are 4 times more likely to be sexually assaulted than boys. see: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:U4cjN0uOQj0J:www.endingviolence.org/files/uploads/AquaintanceRapeFactSheet.pdf+boys+raped+vs.+girls+in+canada&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari) The need for a women’s centre is necessity because women’s centres have historically dealt with and challenged the male power differential within society. Society’s that prioritize traditionally male understandings of power and domination have tended to treat women and children as objects to be discarded or abused. Canadian society is one such society.
The fact that this is even a debate on your campus shows the level of fascist male domination that is outrageous and inappropriate for a student population. you should all be ashamed of yourself for arguing against a women’s centre. Also, your student paper is a waste of time. Students should find out how editors are chosen and take this piece of shit over!
this trash shouldn’t even be considered for publication
for more information on Women in prison’s and the fucked up state of Canada visit http://trentarthur.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1326&Itemid=1
and
http://trentarthur.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1327&Itemid=1
You’re going down a slippery slope when you talk about not wanting public funding to pay for on individual ideologies. I don’t care for all the clubs and most of the services we have here at Mac, but I still pay for them. What does the South Asian society or the Christian group or Quarters or the day care have to do with me?
If I had it my way I would choose to pay nothing towards the MSU and take part in none of their events or use none of their services. If all students had that choice to opt out of the MSU entirely, I could see a large portion of them doing so(considering this last election’s turnout). Thus the MSU would lose a large part of it’s budget, a lot of their services would be cut, and a lot of people would be disgruntled.
The federal government gives grants to artists. Lots of people don’t like the artists they pay for, or even art in general, but they still pay for it through taxes. Is this a bad thing? I wouldn’t say so.
And you talk about dividing students? Ethnic clubs, religious clubs, interest clubs, they already look pretty divided to me. And I don’t feel I would be any happier if I were less divided from people I don’t care for.